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sysop · 17.12.2012, 13:41

America is grieving, praying and discussing stronger gun laws after the school shooting in Newton, Connecticut on Friday. But the latest horrifying massacre is unlikely to change anything. Gun ownership is an important, if misguided, element of the country's national identity.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-873350.html

vinzclortho · 17.12.2012, 14:21

So, how is this really different from Anders Breivick in Norway last year? Aren't we wringing our collective hands enough here in the USA? Did the Norwegians do it better or with more sincerity?

Isn't enough to say that both were likely insane, that Lanza was not as obviously insane as Breivick and that unless one wants to locking such people up prospectively, these things do happen.

AusDerWest · 17.12.2012, 16:01

I see and hear so much about the response of this situation misdirected at false causes. Guns are not the problem. No one who thinks rationally can come to the conclusion that guns caused this tragedy. But even so the cry is about controlling guns. Why? Some people don't think, they just react. Some have agendas that they wish to further, this is just a convenient excuse for them. The agenda driven control most media access and political discourse, so you will hear all about gun control and nothing about the causes of this and other horrific events. Guns have been around a long time and they are demonstrably not the cause. Kids used to take their guns on school buses without any problems. Many homes had a least a shotgun behind the kitchen door. What is different now, and it is not guns.

Just a thought for those not so lost in their ideology as to be devoid of reason. You can slow the spread of Bubonic plague by killing rats, you cannot cure it by killing rats. Killing rats and fleas will not cure the disease, only slow it. These victims cry out for a cure.

BostonJudy · 17.12.2012, 23:42

What an unfortunate choice of words to describe our national identity. To take a national tragedy such as the loss of 20 babies to a sick gunman and use it to criticize America before the children are even buried is not something I would expect of a reputable newspaper or any decent human being.

Our national identity is what you may have seen at the service in Newtown last night when every faith was represented and spoke to the mourners. If I were not grieving, I might remind you that the German national identity is not and never was Nazi "Crazed" despite a very shameful decade of your own national history.

titus_norberto · 18.12.2012, 02:19

There is an irrational tendency to revert the flow of time to justify the unjustifiable but the IDEA of committing a crime is not inside the weapon, not even in the criminal mind BUT in the SOCIETY ITSELF FIRST.

I would argue that before the weapon the criminal was lectured by TV and movies about violence, news portraying the all-powerful US military chastising bad guys around the world with total impunity.

The Balkans, then removing rogue rulers in the Middle East, the moral is: the American way is to kill�

In these electromagnetic soup the young Americans simmer and ponder proportionally to each acumen and level of understanding�

In addition we have a more recent impact of computer games in which our kids kill people by the dozen on a daily basis�.

Most kids know the difference between REAL human beings and computer people BUT some of them might not�

A society in which these things happen so often and consistently is a SICK SOCIETY with or without weapons.

So the demagogic stunt is to blame the tool and not the perpetrator, and my argument is that this is not as innocent as it seems, I do believe that this horrendous crime is USED as an excuse to disarm the American middle class just looted�

Behind the Scenes there is FEAR of impoverished people�

This is the cost of constant war, surge in materialism and mass media monopolized by bad people who, naturally, is afraid, and fear is not silly�

In my view USA is regressing to European feudalism, and the first step is to disarm the sovereign, namely the people.

Norberto

coolblueice · 18.12.2012, 02:32

To call America's fascination and addition to hand guns is hardly a "craze", as that term implies:
1. It's a new phenomenon.
2. It is temporary.

Neither of the above two are true (unfortunately).

For those who say having allowed guns in school would have prevented the tragedy, consider the similar attack in Chengping, in Henan Province China, in which a man also attacked 20 school children and one adult (oddly enough on the same day as the attack in Conn.) What was the death count in the Chenpsping incident? It was zero. That's because the only weapon available to the attacker was a knife. It's easy to do the math... Guns involved = 26 deaths. Guns not involved = 0 deaths. Yes, we could learn a thing or two from the Chinese.

kysmartgirl@hotmail.com · 18.12.2012, 05:53

Acknowledging that the majority of murders and other violent crimes in the US are the direct result of social and cultural degradation on the urban welfare plantations would be, first and foremost, an indictment of the socialist welfare state advocated by you and the Democrats. That is something the writer of this article will however never admit. Instead you call for more gun control.

It is clear that you are fully immersed in the teachings of Marx and Engels. In order to control the masses they have to be disarmed. The people in the US will not give up their right to self-defense because a crazy person went off the deep end.

As for the media misrepresentation of the Newtown attack, though virtually every news outlet is reporting that this was the "worst school attack in history," the most lethal attack on a school occurred in 1927, when a disgruntled school-board member murdered 45 people, including 38 elementary students -- with a bomb in Bath, Michigan. You also fail to report that violent crime and mass killings have actually decreased in numbers.

The assailant who murdered 27 women and children in Newtown was a sociopathic murderer who used a gun. Adam Lanza murdered them, NOT the gun.

It is your idea of a gun-free utopia, your liberal progressive indoctrination in schools that "you can't fight the bully" mentality; your total abandonment of moral principles; your destruction of the family and your blind hate of right and wrong, for discipline, honor and respect that is the cause for this violence. Look in the mirror, you are the one responsible, your ideas have created a whole generation of people that don't value life. Now you want to cry about and lie about your creation. Shame on you.

truprecht · 20.12.2012, 18:11

Thank you, kysmartgirl, for immediately providing an excellent example of the articulate-yet-paranoid thinking so pervasive in the American Right. In short, "If you're not packin', you're a pinko!"

kysmartgirl@hotmail.com · 12.01.2013, 01:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by truprecht

Thank you, kysmartgirl, for immediately providing an excellent example of the articulate-yet-paranoid thinking so pervasive in the American Right. In short, "If you're not packin', you're a pinko!"

Truprecht, you should not make it so obvious that you just don't get it. You are the one exhibiting, what you call paranoid-thinking. Why do you feel so threatened by law-abiding citizens owning guns? Guns protect us as a person and as a country. Maybe we should tax those who refuse to own a gun because we will have to protect them in an emergency.

Have you ever asked yourself why it is that countries that disarmed the public usually end up as dictatorships, killing thousands of their citizens?

Don't mock what you don't understand. It is not paranoia, it's called keeping the freedom but than that is something European countries gave up a long time ago.

17.12.2012, 13:41	#1
sysop Administrator Join Date: 08.03.2005 Posts: 3,181	America's Weapons Craze: A Fatally Counterproductive National Identity America is grieving, praying and discussing stronger gun laws after the school shooting in Newton, Connecticut on Friday. But the latest horrifying massacre is unlikely to change anything. Gun ownership is an important, if misguided, element of the country's national identity. http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-873350.html

17.12.2012, 16:01	#3
AusDerWest Join Date: 17.12.2012 Posts: 1	It is not what you think. I see and hear so much about the response of this situation misdirected at false causes. Guns are not the problem. No one who thinks rationally can come to the conclusion that guns caused this tragedy. But even so the cry is about controlling guns. Why? Some people don't think, they just react. Some have agendas that they wish to further, this is just a convenient excuse for them. The agenda driven control most media access and political discourse, so you will hear all about gun control and nothing about the causes of this and other horrific events. Guns have been around a long time and they are demonstrably not the cause. Kids used to take their guns on school buses without any problems. Many homes had a least a shotgun behind the kitchen door. What is different now, and it is not guns. Just a thought for those not so lost in their ideology as to be devoid of reason. You can slow the spread of Bubonic plague by killing rats, you cannot cure it by killing rats. Killing rats and fleas will not cure the disease, only slow it. These victims cry out for a cure.

17.12.2012, 23:42	#4
BostonJudy Join Date: 17.12.2012 Posts: 1	National Mis-Identification What an unfortunate choice of words to describe our national identity. To take a national tragedy such as the loss of 20 babies to a sick gunman and use it to criticize America before the children are even buried is not something I would expect of a reputable newspaper or any decent human being. Our national identity is what you may have seen at the service in Newtown last night when every faith was represented and spoke to the mourners. If I were not grieving, I might remind you that the German national identity is not and never was Nazi "Crazed" despite a very shameful decade of your own national history.

18.12.2012, 02:19	#5
titus_norberto Join Date: 14.08.2012 Posts: 30	Blaming weapons is like blaming the hammer after hammering yourself a finger� There is an irrational tendency to revert the flow of time to justify the unjustifiable but the IDEA of committing a crime is not inside the weapon, not even in the criminal mind BUT in the SOCIETY ITSELF FIRST. I would argue that before the weapon the criminal was lectured by TV and movies about violence, news portraying the all-powerful US military chastising bad guys around the world with total impunity. The Balkans, then removing rogue rulers in the Middle East, the moral is: the American way is to kill� In these electromagnetic soup the young Americans simmer and ponder proportionally to each acumen and level of understanding� In addition we have a more recent impact of computer games in which our kids kill people by the dozen on a daily basis�. Most kids know the difference between REAL human beings and computer people BUT some of them might not� A society in which these things happen so often and consistently is a SICK SOCIETY with or without weapons. So the demagogic stunt is to blame the tool and not the perpetrator, and my argument is that this is not as innocent as it seems, I do believe that this horrendous crime is USED as an excuse to disarm the American middle class just looted� Behind the Scenes there is FEAR of impoverished people� This is the cost of constant war, surge in materialism and mass media monopolized by bad people who, naturally, is afraid, and fear is not silly� In my view USA is regressing to European feudalism, and the first step is to disarm the sovereign, namely the people. Norberto

18.12.2012, 02:32	#6
coolblueice Join Date: 14.12.2011 Posts: 3	Craze? What craze? To call America's fascination and addition to hand guns is hardly a "craze", as that term implies: 1. It's a new phenomenon. 2. It is temporary. Neither of the above two are true (unfortunately). For those who say having allowed guns in school would have prevented the tragedy, consider the similar attack in Chengping, in Henan Province China, in which a man also attacked 20 school children and one adult (oddly enough on the same day as the attack in Conn.) What was the death count in the Chenpsping incident? It was zero. That's because the only weapon available to the attacker was a knife. It's easy to do the math... Guns involved = 26 deaths. Guns not involved = 0 deaths. Yes, we could learn a thing or two from the Chinese.

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17.12.2012, 14:21	#2
vinzclortho Join Date: 21.08.2012 Posts: 9	So, how is this really different from Anders Breivick in Norway last year? Aren't we wringing our collective hands enough here in the USA? Did the Norwegians do it better or with more sincerity? Isn't enough to say that both were likely insane, that Lanza was not as obviously insane as Breivick and that unless one wants to locking such people up prospectively, these things do happen.

18.12.2012, 05:53	#7
kysmartgirl@hotmail.com Join Date: 02.11.2012 Posts: 3	Deliberate Media Misrepresentation Acknowledging that the majority of murders and other violent crimes in the US are the direct result of social and cultural degradation on the urban welfare plantations would be, first and foremost, an indictment of the socialist welfare state advocated by you and the Democrats. That is something the writer of this article will however never admit. Instead you call for more gun control. It is clear that you are fully immersed in the teachings of Marx and Engels. In order to control the masses they have to be disarmed. The people in the US will not give up their right to self-defense because a crazy person went off the deep end. As for the media misrepresentation of the Newtown attack, though virtually every news outlet is reporting that this was the "worst school attack in history," the most lethal attack on a school occurred in 1927, when a disgruntled school-board member murdered 45 people, including 38 elementary students -- with a bomb in Bath, Michigan. You also fail to report that violent crime and mass killings have actually decreased in numbers. The assailant who murdered 27 women and children in Newtown was a sociopathic murderer who used a gun. Adam Lanza murdered them, NOT the gun. It is your idea of a gun-free utopia, your liberal progressive indoctrination in schools that "you can't fight the bully" mentality; your total abandonment of moral principles; your destruction of the family and your blind hate of right and wrong, for discipline, honor and respect that is the cause for this violence. Look in the mirror, you are the one responsible, your ideas have created a whole generation of people that don't value life. Now you want to cry about and lie about your creation. Shame on you.

20.12.2012, 18:11	#8
truprecht Join Date: 20.12.2012 Posts: 1	Case in Point Thank you, kysmartgirl, for immediately providing an excellent example of the articulate-yet-paranoid thinking so pervasive in the American Right. In short, "If you're not packin', you're a pinko!"