The Immigrant Debate: Does Germany Suffer from Chronic Xenophobia?

[Inglenda2]

As G. Barraclough wrote his book called – the History of Modern Germany – first published in the year 1946, he could not have known that 66 years later people would still talk about Hitler and the Nazis.
From the formation of mediaeval Germany which started in the ninth century, to the Bundesrepublic of today, nothing seems to be taught in most schools other than what happened in the years 1933 to 1945. The biggest culprit for this extremely short and misleading version of passed events is none other than the German government itself.

The result is a catastrophic mentality amongst the population, who learn from their earliest childhood, that only their forefathers were responsible for the human disasters of the twentieth century. A condition, which one could describe as political self mutilation.

To keep a German quiet, it is usually enough just to mention the word holocaust. Anybody who dares cast a doubt on anything negative which has been said about Hitler's regime and the people who lived under his rule, is at once considered to be a Neo-Nazi. The expressions Anti-Semitic and racism are pulled out of the bag at every opportunity. The unjust critical statements about a poem from Günter Grass this month are just one example.

In the media, the number of atrocities said to have been committed by Hitler’s Germany increase year by year. At the same time - for example in Dresden, where eyewitness accounts have been ignored, – it would appear, at least according to the media, that number of German victims are rapidly on the decline. Why are doubts on possible errors in relation to crimes committed against humanity not allowed – or in some cases forbidden – instead of being investigated?

The question which foreign observers may well ask themselves is: Can we trust and rely on the leaders of a country, who are not ready to stand up for their own people?

[poliman]

Originally Posted by finebetty

Unfortunately language problems are a huge barrier to integration or any quality of life in Germany - you need German to work, to study, to get out of the shops run by foreigners for foreigners....Turkish women who dont speak German are incredibly isolated and dependent on their husbands, relatives, the Turkish community, cannot help their children with schoolwork or even call for help if needed. I dont think the tests have been implemented in the right way but I do think everyone should be expected to do a language course when they arrive - it is only to their own benefit. If I was to move to another country I would do language courses myself beforehand, this obviously doesnt occur to alot of people and/or they cant afford them. There are incredibly affordable language courses available all over Germany and they also offer the opportunity to meet other people etc.

A Turkish woman who does not speak German!! What a stereotype resulted from Bild articles. ...There are few of those out there and they belong to elder generation who are not part of the workforce any longer. Turks who live in Germany do speak German. Because they are German. ...Accept it.

Besides what if they don't. No one can be forced to speak any language. One has right to speak her mother tounge or Esperanto. ..I hate to use Nazi card, but this is very Nazi of you. Very fascist. Very hateful.

[w.ravencide]

for context: i am mixed race, half white british on my mothers side but my 'father' is black. i never knew him, and i merely call him the sperm-donor. i was raised English. i have been described as being VERY english by london friends....none of whom are native-english themselves!

from the beginning of life i experienced severe racism. standard stuff: got into fights, was called names EVERY DAY. had things thrown at me, passers-by didn't care AT ALL. hated going to school. tried scraping my skin off at one point. had a very racist teaching assistant who laughed at what the other kids were saying to me. the school always said i was lying when i told them what was going on.
It messes you up forever!
now i always distrust authority, and i'm always on my guard in case someone attacks me. it has happened. i am ALWAYS suspicious wherever i go in any country.
i don't know if i get more dodgy looks in germany than here. i live in london, in a very foreign area with my german boyfriend. been to Germany several times (4 or 5) recently been to Berlin and Leipzig. Didn't know how bad east Germany was! i didn't notice any prejudice. i usually see myself as a self-apointed freak and assume that's why i get stared at. but i get stared at everywhere cos i don't fit into the 'norm.' I get less issues from the English (unless i go to a small village somewhere....then you're risking some serious abuse.) than i do from some London people. It definately works both ways. i think people stare because they don't understand what you are.

thing is i don't speak enough german to know if people are making racist comments near me....this bothers me. but i definitely get stared at in Germany, blank empty stares, they creepy me out. maybe it's just cos i'm speaking English and this bothers them! i'd feel better knowing they hate me cos i'm english rather than hating me cos i have darker skin! weird how that works.

my point is that i think Racism in Germany may be more organised and violent and the neo-nazis have weapons. but the mantality, i think, isn't that different from here. racism is running rampant in England too, people have been killed, stuff has happened.
It's a shame; i had some hope for Germany and its disappointing that it's so wide-spread. But the racism is less disapointing than the lack of military/official response. THIS worries me more than anything, but i just think Germany has no idea what it's doing. England has been dealing with immigrants forever, we have practice. i think Germany is just out of it's depth, and maybe just needs some advice on the matter! but of course they (the government) care more about money than societal harmony!

my intention is to move to hamburg (big city = less racism) and see how much abuse i get, and obviously learn German. see for myself!

[chuchu3151]

Originally Posted by Baron

I am kind of old and naturally that makes me a racist. I almost qualified to become a member of the NSDAP. How the hell did I survive all these years in this country without getting my ass kicked by the likes of warmth. Especially as I never hesitated to call a spade a spade. Maybe it was my blonde hair, blue eyes and six foot two, or maybe because my english was better than the one spoken around here.

I am amazed about all the German bashing going on in this forum. Even more amazing when one considers that about 50% of white Americans are of German ancestry and not ashamed of it. Of course there always are certain posters who like to beat up on Krauts. I wonder were their ancestors came from? Their motto is most likely, "The only good German is a dead German

And we are the racists?

I am damn proud of being a German. How proud are you of what you are?

THANK HEAVENS!!!I thought there were no more proud REAL Germans left anymore! My fellow Germans are so eager to
trash themselves as "racists" or Nazis or say and do stupid things to show how cosmopolitan and "in" they are.
Like you, I am VERY proud to be German, blond hair and all. I think our fellow Germans should get up from their backsides and stand proud.
The people that call us names and have complaints? Well I'm sure their countries are much better than Germany and will welcome them with open arms.

[Inglenda2]

Having read what chuchu3151 wrote on the 7th of Feb, I cannot but agree. Germans are no better or worse than any other people. True, there were and are nationalists, but what about the Klu Klux Klan in America, the British Empire league in Britain, The Republicans in Ireland, Islamists in the Middle East, or even the Communists in Russia, Poland and the Czech Republic.
Wherever human-beings are to be found, there will be some who wish to prove, possibly with violence, that they are superior to others.
The only real problem most Germans have, is their own government which refuses to stand up for their rights. Four generations have been brought up to believe – against all evidence – that only the German people were responsible for two world wars. It is one thing for a country to lose a war, a war in which crimes were committed on all sides, but quite another to put the blame just on to the population of one nation. It is nearly always the government of a country which declares war on another, not the people, or even the soldiers who have to risk death. The hate and revenge which follows hits mostly those who are the least responsible, as was the case in the murders on and deportation of those living in former East-German territories after WW2.
The myths and legends which have been spread about Germany, during the last sixty years, bare little relationship with the truth, but those who have been taught to believe them, rarely take the trouble to investigate for themselves. It is easier just to repeat what others have said.
Some years ago I heard a historian say on television, the truth is not wanted and therefore I only write what I know can be sold. That would seem to sum up the education now given to children. It is no wonder that these then blame their own forefathers for all which went wrong.