Codename 'Murky Water': Iran's Secret Plan to Contaminate the Strait of Hormuz

[ArtMiller]

Originally Posted by retarded-freak

I earlier became suspicious that the UK was perhaps pushing for us to attack Iran now in some subtle manner.

Have you seen this:

http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archiv...ere-all-in-it/

Hints in that direction.

[jas88]

Originally Posted by ArtMiller

If true, it would be relevant. The threat of force is prohibited

Does that "prohibition" really count for anything though? Will Ahmadinejad be arrested for it? Told to stand in the corner?

The "wiped off the map" statement, that Ahmadinejad is alleged to have made, has long been recognized as a mistranslation.

Splitting hairs: the exact phrase is "from the pages of time", which is equivalent. In English if you mean somebody has an alcohol problem you might say he "drinks like a fish", the French phrase is "drinks like a hole".

Actions speak louder than words, though: handing over the centrifuges and highly-enriched material and accepting the offer of nuclear fuel supplies would surely achieve much more, if that is truly their goal? For that matter, renouncing terrorism and helping eliminate Hamas and Hezbollah to the best of their abilities would be positive steps, but I wouldn't hold my breath for that either.

If they aren't seeking weapons ... why persist in high enrichment? If the police saw me building triggers, bullets, barrels and stocks in my home, would they not be reasonable in suspecting I might be trying to get guns?

Originally Posted by ArtMiller

Have you seen this:

http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archiv...ere-all-in-it/

Hints in that direction.

No, I havent, but that is very interesting. Many people where I live in the USA do not like the Israeli regime or want a war with Iran. I thought of taking a photo of them, as there are many who hold picket signs against Israeli war-mongering with the US. The only people who want a Big War in the USA are generally very thuggish types who see it as an exciting way to stimulate the economy. These same people see the long War in Afghanistan as "a small war" and hope for something bigger. Strangely, the ones who want the war alongside Israel seem like real Nazis, who complain about immigrants in the same breath.

[ArtMiller]

Originally Posted by jas88

Does that "prohibition" really count for anything though? Will Ahmadinejad be arrested for it? Told to stand in the corner?

Ahmadinejad has never threatened an attack on any country, and if anybody misunderstood his statement that was translated as "wiped off", their clarifications, which I quoted, leave no doubt that he does not threaten anybody.

On the other hand, there's no doubt about Israel's and the US' repeated statements, and no corrections and clarifications from their side, so the question is whether those governments should feel consequences for it.

Originally Posted by jas88

Splitting hairs: the exact phrase is "from the pages of time", which is equivalent.

I see a notable difference between "Israel must be wiped off the map" and "this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time". "vanish" is passive, whereas "must be wiped off" would be something that is actively pursued by someone.

But that's not the point, as their subsequent statements remove any ambiguity.

Originally Posted by jas88

Actions speak louder than words, though: handing over the centrifuges and highly-enriched material and accepting the offer of nuclear fuel supplies would surely achieve much more, if that is truly their goal?

Why should they? They signed the NPT and have the right to develop and enrich and use, and if they withdrew from it, as mentioned, they'd be free to legally do what the other non-signers do: build nuclear weapons.

Incidentally, these are the same arguments we've heard a decade ago when the US government wanted to attack Iraq (just compare US war aggression to that of Iran, so much for "actions speak louder than words"). The US wants regime change, and a nuclear deterrent might hinder the US from doing that, so they don't want the Iran to get one, but - same as with Iran - that's not the end goal.

Originally Posted by jas88

For that matter, renouncing terrorism and helping eliminate Hamas and Hezbollah to the best of their abilities would be positive steps, but I wouldn't hold my breath for that either.

Again, start looking at numbers. For the deaths of how many innocent people, say since the start of this millennium, do the US governments bear responsibility? And Israel? Compare those numbers with the numbers of those groups you consider terrorist groups and then think again. Israel kills 10 times as many Palestinians as Israelis get killed by terrorists, for the US, it's a factor in the high hundreds, maybe even thousands.

We should tackle the bigger issues first, obviously, and then it will probably turn out the smaller ones go away as well. Most of the terrorists want to take revenge. Revenge for what?

Originally Posted by jas88

If they aren't seeking weapons ... why persist in high enrichment? If the police saw me building triggers, bullets, barrels and stocks in my home, would they not be reasonable in suspecting I might be trying to get guns?

Just curious, did you also fall for Iraq last time around? "Aluminum tubes", "mushroom clouds", "WMDs", "links to al-Qaida". Mostly ridiculous claims, repeated in the media, believed by the gullible people, now known to be all untrue, but they helped rationalize war. Interesting to see that the same trick will work again this time. Otoh, maybe you are just to young to remember...